SEO certification

[dwainedino]

A colleague told me that he is getting SEO certification.

He apparently referred me to this URL:

http://www.seotoolset.com/

Anyone know anything about this?

[Blazingpie]

A colleague told me that he is getting SEO certification.

He apparently referred me to this URL:

http://www.seotoolset.com/

Anyone know anything about this?

This is the wrong thread for this, you should of started a new one :p

[Paz]

Hi dwainedino,

Yeah searchengine marketing is the one of the few industries I know of where anyone with a modem can call themselves an expert. The problem is the clients don't know enough to ask basic questions such as "show me one of your sites with high rankings in Google". It's an awareness issue.

We're in a new industry that's crying out for certification or even some sort of regulation. The only accreditation that might be recognised is Google's Adwords Profession status - but that's more search engine marketing than search engine optimisation.

I always thought that the first big name person to come along offering some sort of SEO certification would be the winner. I shouldn't be too suprised it's Bruce Clay.

Cheers,
Paz.

[Chatmaster]

Paz, do you rate Bruce Clay as reputable and independent enough to be able to do this though? I know he has fantastic tools and had it for years. He also has a good reputation in the industry and is a speaker at several conferences, but I have never dealt with him as he is not very active in the forums I take part in if he is active in any. SEO in my view has always been about forums due to the fact that it is not an exact science. I have always liked Bruce Clay's code of conduct and I think that would set a good standard for SEO. I also feel certification is long overdue, I just hope this one works out, I reserve my opinion at this stage and stay a little skeptical.

[Paz]

Hmmm... good question. I think he is a good person actually. I know he's deeply unpopular with some of the other big players, and for sure some of that is due to his arrogance and egotism (allegedly! haha), but I'm sure there's also some jealousy in there too.

As well as being a highly respected trainer, he's been ranked highly for "search engine optimisation" since the term was coined. I know that's only symbollic; but it gives him enough crediblity and authority to be able to set a code of conduct, and establish an SEM certification of some sort.

I agree that learning SEO is all about forums, but that doesn't help with a standard. Actually the fact that there are so many different forums is exactly the reason we need a code of conduct and self-regulation.

In the syndk8 forum you can learn about IP & user agent cloaking, guest book and blog injection spam, automated content generation etc. as the basic tools for search engine optimisation.

In Doug Heil's ihelpyouservices forum, a backlink campaign is apparently search engine spam if it involves anything other than submission to DMOZ, Joeant and Zeal is spam. (eg this spam thread (http://www.ihelpyou.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22473&highlight=findinforums) is hilarious.)

So with such a diversity of opinion on improving rankings AND:

What's ethical and won't get you banned.
What's ethical but could get you banned.
What's unethical but won't get you banned.
What unethical and will get you banned.


plus variations on grey areas what probably will/won't get a penalty etc.... we need some sort of SEO code of conduct (different from the search engine guidelines).

Also the penalties for mismanaging an internet marketing campaign are become more and more severe as search engines increasingly target sites that are spamming their indexes. An unqualified or inexperienced SEO can get a site into dire trouble and walk away, leaving an online business in tatters for anything upto a year in Google.

We desperately need some sort of accrediation in the search engine marketing industry, and if Bruce Clay's the only major league person so far to step forward, then I'll get behind him for sure!

Cheers,
Paz.

[Chatmaster]

Yep you have some valid points! I think my main problem with Bruce Clay in this position is the fact that he is not independent. I believe having your own SEO company cause a major problem with also certifying SEO's. Essentially if I had an SEO company I would be marketing his company by adding his certification on my website. I stand loosing my customers and the end result will without a doubt be that his company will have the biggest brand name in the industry. If I was an SEO company I most certainly would not link my name to his as it is clearly just about money for him.

However if there was an independent body of which Bruce Clay and some other big names served on a committee it would have been much better to me. I support the idea of certification but not by a branded SEO company though.

[Koz]

I support the idea of certification but not by a branded SEO company though.

I totaly agree. Certification for SEO would be great but guidlines need to be set. I'm sure Bruce Clay's certification is excellent but I would also be skeptical of a "Branded" SEO company deciding what ethical SEO is.

Like you said, international ethical guidlines need to be set by people who are more objective.

Cheers, Koz

[Blazingpie]

Personally I don't see how this could work. Like Paz says, there is such a diversity of opinion few in the industry will acknowledge the certification. it's not like programming where ppl know exactly what's going on. For this certification to work the SEs must be completely transparent so that every can look at the algo and then be able to judge that if someone's degree is worth anything. And as I doubt the SEs would ever do that...

[Chatmaster]

Yep, the point Paz made is spot on. SEO is not a science and I see he has a training schedule that is completely setup in a money generating way, which is fair as this is not a non-profit organization just don't expect me to pay $1495 for a 2.5day training session in his way of doing SEO lol

I also see he offers a "Certification Refreshers Course" at $995 which means he makes use of the ever changing SEO environment to generate a growing passive income which is excellent for business. My problem with that though is that means you will probably have to get that done every 6 months to be current. On-top of that having to pay a quarterly fee to keep your certification. I have to give him one thing, he is an excellent businessman.

[Paz]

Yeah, in the absence of any real leadership, I'm suprised it took Bruce Clay as long as he did to move in. A fifteen hundred bucks sounds like a lot of money, but in the US it would be about the norm for any short, training seminar and I'm pretty sure (but not certain) that the costs can be offset against tax.

Actually, I wouldn't be suprised if at least one of the search engines DID offer some sort of certification. My money's on MSN being the first... ;)

Cheers,
Paz.

[daniel]

I dont think that certification is a good thing, who will give it, its a crap idea.

Worst of all, if a branded SEO company claim to provide a cert, then thats worse than anything.

Any reputable company will not train the PUBLIC on their advanced seo techniques, they will NEVER release their IP.

As you guys said, maybe a independant board should comment and provide a "white hat" worthiness, something along the lines of W3C and html compliance.

Dan